Shuttle XPC® SN25P Barebone
Out of stock |
Similar in Barebone Systems
- Form Factor: Small Form Factor
- Type: Stationary
- Chipset: NVIDIA nForce4
- Overview
-
Reviews
-
Compare Prices
User ReviewRead All Reviews »
Nice design. Hobbled by manufacturing problems
Pros
Slick design, Small size, Athlon64 power.
Cons
Build quality is suspect
Recommended it?
No
The Bottom Line:
My Shuttle shipped with defective SATA cables, it is a common problem and one that Shuttle did not acknowledge
[Update May 07 - Misdiagnosis]
The buzzing seems to be from the back fans, not the power supply. Removing the fans seem to have reduced the ratting/buzzing noise, but since overheating is an issue I removed one and disconnected another leaving just one hard drive. I am currently looking for a quality replacement fan, and chalk this up to Shuttle using cheap parts.
[Update Jan 07 - More problems]
Last fall the power supply fan starting being very loud. Too loud for a machine that is ostensibly a multimedia computer, as you would have some difficulty hearing the television over the buzzing without disturbing the neighbours. Replacement fans are hard to come by, because Shuttle seems to be the only supplier. Also Shuttle doesn't feel it necessary to publish the price, instead requiring you to call them for the price .... schuuuups.
[Update - Shuttle SATA cable issue]
I replaced the SATA cables with inexpensive third party (Brand X) SATA cables. I installed the cables early September 2005, since then I have not experienced any problems communicating with my hard disk. So the Shuttle cables are defective, this is apparently a common problem and one that Shuttle is unwilling to acknowledge.
[/Update]
The SN25P is a small box, with dimensions of 9H x8W x 13L. It weighs about 5lbs, probably double that when it is fully loaded. The SN25P is a large small form factor machine, it is bigger than some of Shuttle's other cases and the cases from other manufacturers - like AOpen's new XC Cube.
Compared to the standard minitower the SN25P is quite small. The Dell Dimension 3000 stands 17H x 7W x 14L and weighs 23lbs. When it comes to size, the Dimension 3000 is on a much larger scale than the SN25P.
The SN25P is a pretty slick machine, primarily because of its small size. The box is mainly unadorned except for the front, where it has a raised plastic face. The design is slick and functional, but the blue gray colour is off putting. The all black SB31P uses the same design, and looks better - and black accessories are easy to locate.
The SN25P is a high-end computer, it is based on the NVidia NForce4 chipset. The SN25P is AMD Socket 939 based, so it supports the Athlon64 - including the AthlonFX and maybe the new dual core X2. It supports up to 2GB of memory, using relatively quick DDR400 DIMMs. It is uses the PCI Express bus, and has no PCI or AGP slots. Instead it has a 16x PCIE slot for the video card and a 1x PCIE slot for expansion.
The SN25P includes; a built in Gigabit LAN connection, onboard 8-channel audio, 3 FireWire ports, 6 USB ports and an 8-in-1 Memory Card reader. It has 4 SATA headers and 1 ATA header, so it there are connections for 4 SATA drives or two ATA/IDE drives. The case has space for 3 3 1/2 drives and one 5 1/4 drive.
Installation
Shuttle ships a complete full colour install guide with the SN25P, that walks the user through the entire build. The only issue with the manual, is that it is required - this is not an intuitive process. There are a few gotchas, so you need to be careful when build - you also need to read and follow the instructions. The SN25P is a tooless, and a screwdriver is only need once or twice while building.
Shuttle ships a complete package, the SN25P comes with almost everything required to build a computer - not a computer system. The barebones package requires a processor, a video card, a hard drive, an optical drive and a memory stick.
Installing the CPU is a bit involved, the first step is actually installing the CPU. The SN25P uses ZIF sockets, and there is enough room to maneuver the CPU. Attaching the ICE to the CPU is a bit more difficult, thermal paste must be used to attach the CPU - this is provided. The ICE radiator must then be securely attached to the main board. It has been claimed that the radiators springs cause damaged to a latched in CPU during removal. Even so, it is clearly documented and a reasonably dexterous person should be able to install it in 15 minutes or less.
Installing Memory is easier the only concern being the relatively tight constraints of the SN25P. Care must also be exercised, enough force to snap the DIMM into the socket but not enough to crack the main board.
Installing the drives is tricky, using screws would've made it easier. During this process, you gain a understanding of Shuttle's lightweight philosophy and the drawbacks of this approach. With care and persistence you can complete this process without breaking anything.
Installing the video card is one of the few tasks that require a screwdriver. The tight confines of the SN25P limits the size of the video card that can be installed. Even if the card can fit, and most 'normal' ones will, getting it installed is a chore that requires patience and dexterity. Thankfully there are no PCI-E cards available, because installing in the x1 PCI-E slot will be a real pain the ...neck.
All told 'building' an SN25P system will take almost two hours, including approx 45 minutes of actual assembling.
Impressions from daily usage
I run Ubuntu Linux, instead of Microsoft Windows. After verifying that my newly assembled SN25P POSTed, I installed Microsoft Windows Server 2003 to ensure the system worked. About five days later I installed Ubuntu Linux.
The installation was problem free - Ubuntu's installer found the major system components and installed the drivers to support them. The first incompatibility with Ubuntu Linux was the lack of sound. This is because while the SN25P uses a stock sound chip, it has a unique identifier - so UL couldn't find it. The other problem was due to video corruption - but that isn't a SN25P issue.
Windows users should be aware that the Shuttle has a media slot, and this will show up before the hard drives. So the flash drive, not the hard drive will be disk C:.
The SN25P is a quiet machine, there is a whine when it initially boots up but this quickly dies down to a barely audible hum. Noises from the hard drive, and especially the optical drive will easily drown out the system fans. Under stress the fans - particularly the CPU fan - will speed up, with accompanying noise. The change is audible, but the SN25P would still be considered quiet. The SN25P has five fans, and they seem to cool the box adequately. Under stress there is a steady stream of hot air exiting the box
The SN25P uses a radiator to cool the processor. The ICE system consists of a CPU radiator, inlet and outlet fans. This is the centerpiece of the SN25P, and the Shuttle XPC line's cooling system and it seems to work quite well. The system is relatively quiet, and under stress there is a steady stream of hot air exiting the system. The presence of the hot air is a rough indicator that the cooling system is working. The SN25P's BIOS settings allows for modification of the fan speeds, it also includes support for system monitoring software, like SpeedFan. This should allow Windows users more control over the cooling of their systems.
Problems
About 40 days after building this SN25P, the power button fell off. On the SN25P the power is a small piece of aluminum that is probably supposed to be glued to the body of the case. The aluminum button fell off, and there did not appear to be a trace of glue attached to the case of button - I reattached the button with some crazy glue. About a week after this, I ran into what appeared to be a disk problem - Linux froze because it could not access the disk. When I powered up my system the following day it worked fine. About one week later, the system refused to POST, freezing at the BIOS splash screen. This problem went away when I disconnected the hard drive from the the SATA cables. The problem reoccurred with 3 weeks, and it reoccurred after switching the to the other cable. Other Shuttle users complained that this is a typical problem with the SN25P. I called Shuttle customer support, who claimed that the SATA problems were a myth. And suggested I re-seat the connection with the motherboard, which I've done and so far it has worked for the last 3 weeks.
Another SN25P shortcoming is its support for the AMD's latest processors. Quite a few users have complained about the new dual core X2 having buggy support - causing BSODs and freezes. There is also an issue with the fastest Athlon64 processors having similar problems. These issues are supposed to be fixed in the newest SN25P, but the older ones that do not support the latest processors are also on sale. A similar problem exists with the included drivers, they fail when providing all the advanced problems - the correct ones must be downloaded from the Shuttle website.
Conclusion
The SN25P has a tight design, nice looks and chocked full of technical goodness. It should be a great starting point on the path to building a killer small form factor computer. The supported Athlon64 line is the premier consumer processor. As stated it is possible to put together a viciously quick if not extensible system - using the SN25P. Full marks for design.
Unfortunately, Shuttle has an execution problem. I've owned computers for almost 20 years - and this the first time a power button has fallen off of one of my computers. But while I am the only one who had the power button problem, others have experience the SATA cable connection issue.
The buzzing seems to be from the back fans, not the power supply. Removing the fans seem to have reduced the ratting/buzzing noise, but since overheating is an issue I removed one and disconnected another leaving just one hard drive. I am currently looking for a quality replacement fan, and chalk this up to Shuttle using cheap parts.
[Update Jan 07 - More problems]
Last fall the power supply fan starting being very loud. Too loud for a machine that is ostensibly a multimedia computer, as you would have some difficulty hearing the television over the buzzing without disturbing the neighbours. Replacement fans are hard to come by, because Shuttle seems to be the only supplier. Also Shuttle doesn't feel it necessary to publish the price, instead requiring you to call them for the price .... schuuuups.
[Update - Shuttle SATA cable issue]
I replaced the SATA cables with inexpensive third party (Brand X) SATA cables. I installed the cables early September 2005, since then I have not experienced any problems communicating with my hard disk. So the Shuttle cables are defective, this is apparently a common problem and one that Shuttle is unwilling to acknowledge.
[/Update]
The SN25P is a small box, with dimensions of 9H x8W x 13L. It weighs about 5lbs, probably double that when it is fully loaded. The SN25P is a large small form factor machine, it is bigger than some of Shuttle's other cases and the cases from other manufacturers - like AOpen's new XC Cube.
Compared to the standard minitower the SN25P is quite small. The Dell Dimension 3000 stands 17H x 7W x 14L and weighs 23lbs. When it comes to size, the Dimension 3000 is on a much larger scale than the SN25P.
The SN25P is a pretty slick machine, primarily because of its small size. The box is mainly unadorned except for the front, where it has a raised plastic face. The design is slick and functional, but the blue gray colour is off putting. The all black SB31P uses the same design, and looks better - and black accessories are easy to locate.
The SN25P is a high-end computer, it is based on the NVidia NForce4 chipset. The SN25P is AMD Socket 939 based, so it supports the Athlon64 - including the AthlonFX and maybe the new dual core X2. It supports up to 2GB of memory, using relatively quick DDR400 DIMMs. It is uses the PCI Express bus, and has no PCI or AGP slots. Instead it has a 16x PCIE slot for the video card and a 1x PCIE slot for expansion.
The SN25P includes; a built in Gigabit LAN connection, onboard 8-channel audio, 3 FireWire ports, 6 USB ports and an 8-in-1 Memory Card reader. It has 4 SATA headers and 1 ATA header, so it there are connections for 4 SATA drives or two ATA/IDE drives. The case has space for 3 3 1/2 drives and one 5 1/4 drive.
Installation
Shuttle ships a complete full colour install guide with the SN25P, that walks the user through the entire build. The only issue with the manual, is that it is required - this is not an intuitive process. There are a few gotchas, so you need to be careful when build - you also need to read and follow the instructions. The SN25P is a tooless, and a screwdriver is only need once or twice while building.
Shuttle ships a complete package, the SN25P comes with almost everything required to build a computer - not a computer system. The barebones package requires a processor, a video card, a hard drive, an optical drive and a memory stick.
Installing the CPU is a bit involved, the first step is actually installing the CPU. The SN25P uses ZIF sockets, and there is enough room to maneuver the CPU. Attaching the ICE to the CPU is a bit more difficult, thermal paste must be used to attach the CPU - this is provided. The ICE radiator must then be securely attached to the main board. It has been claimed that the radiators springs cause damaged to a latched in CPU during removal. Even so, it is clearly documented and a reasonably dexterous person should be able to install it in 15 minutes or less.
Installing Memory is easier the only concern being the relatively tight constraints of the SN25P. Care must also be exercised, enough force to snap the DIMM into the socket but not enough to crack the main board.
Installing the drives is tricky, using screws would've made it easier. During this process, you gain a understanding of Shuttle's lightweight philosophy and the drawbacks of this approach. With care and persistence you can complete this process without breaking anything.
Installing the video card is one of the few tasks that require a screwdriver. The tight confines of the SN25P limits the size of the video card that can be installed. Even if the card can fit, and most 'normal' ones will, getting it installed is a chore that requires patience and dexterity. Thankfully there are no PCI-E cards available, because installing in the x1 PCI-E slot will be a real pain the ...neck.
All told 'building' an SN25P system will take almost two hours, including approx 45 minutes of actual assembling.
Impressions from daily usage
I run Ubuntu Linux, instead of Microsoft Windows. After verifying that my newly assembled SN25P POSTed, I installed Microsoft Windows Server 2003 to ensure the system worked. About five days later I installed Ubuntu Linux.
The installation was problem free - Ubuntu's installer found the major system components and installed the drivers to support them. The first incompatibility with Ubuntu Linux was the lack of sound. This is because while the SN25P uses a stock sound chip, it has a unique identifier - so UL couldn't find it. The other problem was due to video corruption - but that isn't a SN25P issue.
Windows users should be aware that the Shuttle has a media slot, and this will show up before the hard drives. So the flash drive, not the hard drive will be disk C:.
The SN25P is a quiet machine, there is a whine when it initially boots up but this quickly dies down to a barely audible hum. Noises from the hard drive, and especially the optical drive will easily drown out the system fans. Under stress the fans - particularly the CPU fan - will speed up, with accompanying noise. The change is audible, but the SN25P would still be considered quiet. The SN25P has five fans, and they seem to cool the box adequately. Under stress there is a steady stream of hot air exiting the box
The SN25P uses a radiator to cool the processor. The ICE system consists of a CPU radiator, inlet and outlet fans. This is the centerpiece of the SN25P, and the Shuttle XPC line's cooling system and it seems to work quite well. The system is relatively quiet, and under stress there is a steady stream of hot air exiting the system. The presence of the hot air is a rough indicator that the cooling system is working. The SN25P's BIOS settings allows for modification of the fan speeds, it also includes support for system monitoring software, like SpeedFan. This should allow Windows users more control over the cooling of their systems.
Problems
About 40 days after building this SN25P, the power button fell off. On the SN25P the power is a small piece of aluminum that is probably supposed to be glued to the body of the case. The aluminum button fell off, and there did not appear to be a trace of glue attached to the case of button - I reattached the button with some crazy glue. About a week after this, I ran into what appeared to be a disk problem - Linux froze because it could not access the disk. When I powered up my system the following day it worked fine. About one week later, the system refused to POST, freezing at the BIOS splash screen. This problem went away when I disconnected the hard drive from the the SATA cables. The problem reoccurred with 3 weeks, and it reoccurred after switching the to the other cable. Other Shuttle users complained that this is a typical problem with the SN25P. I called Shuttle customer support, who claimed that the SATA problems were a myth. And suggested I re-seat the connection with the motherboard, which I've done and so far it has worked for the last 3 weeks.
Another SN25P shortcoming is its support for the AMD's latest processors. Quite a few users have complained about the new dual core X2 having buggy support - causing BSODs and freezes. There is also an issue with the fastest Athlon64 processors having similar problems. These issues are supposed to be fixed in the newest SN25P, but the older ones that do not support the latest processors are also on sale. A similar problem exists with the included drivers, they fail when providing all the advanced problems - the correct ones must be downloaded from the Shuttle website.
Conclusion
The SN25P has a tight design, nice looks and chocked full of technical goodness. It should be a great starting point on the path to building a killer small form factor computer. The supported Athlon64 line is the premier consumer processor. As stated it is possible to put together a viciously quick if not extensible system - using the SN25P. Full marks for design.
Unfortunately, Shuttle has an execution problem. I've owned computers for almost 20 years - and this the first time a power button has fallen off of one of my computers. But while I am the only one who had the power button problem, others have experience the SATA cable connection issue.
